Aug 03 20:57:51 <Hammerhead>	I have le draft if anyone wants to look
Aug 03 20:58:42 <Hammerhead>	http://scpsandbox2.wikidot.com/hammerh TAB TWO
Aug 03 20:59:18 <MrAnakinSpecter>	ooohhhh, well would you look at the time? Hey, Zyn, because you're on the crit team, why don't you take this one?
Aug 03 20:59:24 *	MrAnakinSpecter sceddadles.
Aug 03 20:59:42 <Hammerhead>	T_T
Aug 03 20:59:45 <Zyn>	Well, I /did/ offer earlier.
Aug 03 21:00:02 <Zyn>	MrAnakinSpecter: I am /captain/ of the crit team, thank you very much 3:<
Aug 03 21:00:16 <MrAnakinSpecter>	even better!
Aug 03 21:00:31 <Hammerhead>	Did you? I musta missed the offer :/
Aug 03 21:00:45 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: Right then. Right from the start, you've got bloated sentences
Aug 03 21:00:46 <Zyn>	> At first examination, SCP-XXXX appears to be a large wooden crate measuring 1.8 meters tall by 1.8 meters wide by 5.4 meters long. 
Aug 03 21:00:56 <Zyn>	You want this to be concise and clinical.
Aug 03 21:01:12 <Zyn>	Pretty much everything you state needs to be capable of being confirmed empirically
Aug 03 21:01:19 <Zyn>	and you want to trim down the irrelevant stuff.
Aug 03 21:01:20 <Zyn>	So
Aug 03 21:01:36 <Zyn>	the whole "at first examination, x appears"
Aug 03 21:01:49 <Zyn>	is the "first examination" part crucial to understanding the effect?
Aug 03 21:02:02 <Zyn>	Also, the use of "appears" tends to imply that the thing is not actually what it looks like
Aug 03 21:02:21 <Zyn>	Same with "This crate is constructed of plain oak wood and constructed in such a way that, by initial estimates, it could successfully carry objects weighing over 500 tons without loss of structural integrity."
Aug 03 21:02:22 <Hammerhead>	Well, arguably it isn't.
Aug 03 21:02:33 *	Hammerhead takes notes, "Trim the fat."
Aug 03 21:02:39 <MrAnakinSpecter>	drop one of those "contructed
Aug 03 21:02:42 <MrAnakinSpecter>	"s
Aug 03 21:02:50 <Zyn>	is the exact structural integrity really necessary
Aug 03 21:02:53 <Zyn>	also, why tons
Aug 03 21:02:55 <Zyn>	not kg?
Aug 03 21:03:06 <Hammerhead>	Ah, missed that.
Aug 03 21:03:07 <Zyn>	also, who would bother to calculate that?
Aug 03 21:03:11 <Hammerhead>	Metric tons
Aug 03 21:03:15 <Zyn>	> This crate has also proven to be airtight.
Aug 03 21:03:22 <Zyn>	Don't need this entire sentence
Aug 03 21:03:27 <MrAnakinSpecter>	damn you went full Dickens Hammerhead, didn't you?
Aug 03 21:03:30 <Zyn>	you can probably just slip the word "airtight" in somewhere
Aug 03 21:03:57 <Zyn>	> When one or more planks making up the crate are removed and the interior can be viewed, however, a space far larger than the size of the crate is revealed.
Aug 03 21:04:04 <Zyn>	So it's /not/ airtight?
Aug 03 21:04:11 <Hammerhead>	Well, I was thinking like a scientist trying to run the full gambit of possible details.
Aug 03 21:04:17 <Zyn>	Unless it always remains airtight when planks are removed and refit?
Aug 03 21:04:22 <Zyn>	> 19:04	Hammerhead	Well, I was thinking like a scientist trying to run the full gambit of possible details.
Aug 03 21:04:30 <Zyn>	Yeah, but you're writing flash fiction
Aug 03 21:04:38 <Zyn>	there are a million and one things that a scientist would note
Aug 03 21:04:48 <Zyn>	but a reader isn't going to be interested in this thing on the sole basis of stats
Aug 03 21:04:59 <Zyn>	you're writing a work of fiction, not an encyclopedia entry
Aug 03 21:05:13 <Hammerhead>	Disclaimer- I am on a phone and keep up might be an issue for me in here.
Aug 03 21:05:13 <Zyn>	Hmm.
Aug 03 21:05:15 <Zyn>	> Inside the crate is an unlit space measuring approximately 28.9 kilometers by 28.9 kilometers by 86.9 kilometers. 
Aug 03 21:05:27 <Zyn>	Why so exact
Aug 03 21:05:33 *	weizhong has quit (Quit: G'bye folks. Maybe for a while?)
Aug 03 21:05:41 <Zyn>	Also, how would anyone be able to confirm that this space is in fact /inside/ the crate?
Aug 03 21:05:49 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: When will you have access to a computer?
Aug 03 21:06:08 <Hammerhead>	In a few months. I do everything from my phone.
Aug 03 21:06:29 <Hammerhead>	You just type extremely quickly.
Aug 03 21:06:58 <Hammerhead>	From my perspective, at least.
Aug 03 21:07:18 <Hammerhead>	I am glad you are giving it such attention, though, I greatly appreciate that.
Aug 03 21:07:32 <Zyn>	I hit maybe 30 drafts an average week
Aug 03 21:07:35 <Zyn>	and I don't get paid for this.
Aug 03 21:07:41 *	Zyn shrug
Aug 03 21:07:50 <Zyn>	Worst comes worst, someone can get you a log of the chat
Aug 03 21:07:54 <Zyn>	or you can post to the forums
Aug 03 21:08:08 <Zyn>	Actually, forums might be better. Hang on.
Aug 03 21:08:52 <Zyn>	Yeah, you're a member of the mainsite
Aug 03 21:08:52 <Hammerhead>	For a quick rundown of replies: it's airtight when fully assembled. Why would it not be exactly measured?
Aug 03 21:09:27 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: so regardless of how sloppily someone reassembles it, it'll always be airtight?
Aug 03 21:09:40 <Zyn>	Also, because frickin kilometers.
Aug 03 21:09:45 <Hammerhead>	When assembled properly.
Aug 03 21:10:03 <Zyn>	and then "properly" becomes an issue
Aug 03 21:10:10 <Zyn>	how important is this airtight thing to the object?
Aug 03 21:10:22 <Zyn>	it seems like a relatively low-concern minutiae to me
Aug 03 21:10:41 <Zyn>	Also, re: exact measurements
Aug 03 21:10:47 <Hammerhead>	Not entirely, but as a disclaimer, it's a prison
Aug 03 21:10:48 <Zyn>	86.9 km is roughly 54 miles
Aug 03 21:10:56 <Hammerhead>	Yep
Aug 03 21:11:06 <Hammerhead>	5.4 meters
Aug 03 21:11:08 <Zyn>	I'm wondering why the Foundation would bother sending anything in 
Aug 03 21:11:26 <Zyn>	Because like, finding out how big this thing is on the inside doesn't really seem important
Aug 03 21:11:34 <Zyn>	especially given that there's no guarantee they'll get it back
Aug 03 21:11:35 <Hammerhead>	Why did the bother sending anyone through the mirrors in 093?
Aug 03 21:12:15 <Cimmerian>	Not to step in, but you need a better answer to that question than "it was done that way in another skip"
Aug 03 21:12:22 <Hammerhead>	To see if anything is inside and if it poses a potential threat.
Aug 03 21:12:23 <Zyn>	093 is old as balls.
Aug 03 21:12:31 <Zyn>	Also 093 is confirmed portal or something
Aug 03 21:12:40 <Zyn>	This thing is apparently box what is bigger on inside?
Aug 03 21:13:41 <Hammerhead>	Yeah, and generally boxes are made to contain things. Again, they want to find out if there is anything of note inside.
Aug 03 21:14:13 <Zyn>	Ehh.
Aug 03 21:14:14 <Cimmerian>	You could craft a more compelling reason though.
Aug 03 21:14:21 <Cimmerian>	There's no reason to default to "cause"
Aug 03 21:14:22 <Zyn>	It seems like an offshoot of your other article
Aug 03 21:14:23 <Zyn>	Like
Aug 03 21:14:30 <Zyn>	This seems like more of a supplement to that article
Aug 03 21:14:35 <Zyn>	than a discrete SCP on its own
Aug 03 21:14:43 <Zyn>	the crosslink solidifies that.
Aug 03 21:14:45 <Hammerhead>	What would you suggest, Cimmerian?
Aug 03 21:15:27 *	GreenWolf is now known as AbsentWolf
Aug 03 21:15:30 <Cimmerian>	I haven't read the draft, but I know that "Boxes usually have goodies inside so let's open it and see" is a terrible way to inspire interest, in universe or out
Aug 03 21:15:48 <MrAnakinSpecter>	Unless you are three years old, or a cat
Aug 03 21:15:49 <Hammerhead>	What besides where it has been recovered from links it back to 2423?
Aug 03 21:16:02 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: It's a box with a guy inside.
Aug 03 21:16:23 <Cimmerian>	You control the story. You can make there be interesting. You can create a compelling reason to look inside. Without the compulsion, mind you. ;)
Aug 03 21:16:30 <Zyn>	That in itself isn't particularly compelling to me.
Aug 03 21:16:36 <Zyn>	Yeah, compulsions are overdone and kinda lame
Aug 03 21:16:44 <Hammerhead>	I have a story to go with this.
Aug 03 21:17:06 <MrAnakinSpecter>	sweet, that's usually a plus
Aug 03 21:17:20 <Cimmerian>	I'm not saying you don't, I'm saying you are the writer. The object isn't anything you don't make it.
Aug 03 21:17:22 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: Is it reliant on the reader being familiar with your other SCP?
Aug 03 21:17:29 <Cimmerian>	If it serves the story to change something, change it.
Aug 03 21:18:01 <MrAnakinSpecter>	Oh you meant that you had an explanation for the thing we are currently discussing... I get it
Aug 03 21:18:10 <Hammerhead>	Zyn: No, it isn't.
Aug 03 21:18:23 <Zyn>	Good. That's ideal.
Aug 03 21:18:28 <Zyn>	I haven't read your other article
Aug 03 21:18:36 <Zyn>	so I was wondering if there was more to this than I was picking up on
Aug 03 21:19:01 <Zyn>	But yeah, can't say I'm too interested in this as it is, but keep in mind that I am rather jaded lol
Aug 03 21:19:02 <Hammerhead>	Yeah, there is, but I haven't written the main part of the story yet.
Aug 03 21:19:04 <Zyn>	Also hungry.
Aug 03 21:19:12 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: Might want to do that, then?
Aug 03 21:19:15 <Hammerhead>	Fair enough.
Aug 03 21:19:35 <Zyn>	Like, this is up to par writing-wise, but the content doesn't really seem novel to me.
Aug 03 21:19:45 <Hammerhead>	I was hoping to get some reactions from it. I know that generally you need to grab the audience early on.
Aug 03 21:19:51 <Zyn>	Also, and someone can check me on this, isn't either Able or Cain contained in a weird box?
Aug 03 21:19:55 <Zyn>	Like basalt coffin or something?
Aug 03 21:20:01 <Zyn>	Idk, I'm not too big on humanoids
Aug 03 21:20:17 <Vince>	something like that
Aug 03 21:20:17 <Zyn>	> 19:19	Hammerhead	I was hoping to get some reactions from it. I know that generally you need to grab the audience early on.
Aug 03 21:20:23 <Zyn>	Yeah, but if you don't have your main story
Aug 03 21:20:27 <Zyn>	what's going to grab the audience?
Aug 03 21:21:04 *	Disconnected (Connection reset by peer)
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 03 21:21:46 2015
 
Aug 03 21:21:46 *	Now talking on #site17
Aug 03 21:21:46 *	Topic for #site17 is: A place to chat with SCP Foundation staff, and to get your stuff critiqued if you're a site member! General chat in #site19 - unless staff are involved. | Ask for an admin if you want your app looked at. PLEASE GIVE US A FEW MINUTES TO RESPOND!
Aug 03 21:21:46 *	Topic for #site17 set by Eskobear (Fri Apr 03 11:10:48 2015)
Aug 03 21:21:46 *	ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to ProcyonLotor
Aug 03 21:22:01 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: You, as the writer, and the reader have inherently different perspectives.
Aug 03 21:22:10 *	Nuke_Fury has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
Aug 03 21:22:10 <Zyn>	As the author, of course you are invested in your work.
Aug 03 21:22:11 <Hammerhead>	I plan on the story being played out through exploration logs.
Aug 03 21:22:18 <Zyn>	Your readers do not necessarily share those investments.
Aug 03 21:22:23 <Cimmerian>	Yeah, what Zyn said there is sort of important. The reader *doesn't know there's a story coming*.
Aug 03 21:22:27 <Zyn>	They can and will stop reading mid-way if they get bored.
Aug 03 21:22:40 <Zyn>	They only know what's on the page. What they're reading.
Aug 03 21:22:41 <Hammerhead>	Exactly
Aug 03 21:22:42 <Zyn>	They do not know what you have planned
Aug 03 21:22:54 <Zyn>	and expecting them to assume that something better is coming usually doesn't work out.
Aug 03 21:23:02 <MrAnakinSpecter>	tbh I would've stopped reading mid-page.
Aug 03 21:23:16 *	ProcyonGone has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
Aug 03 21:23:23 <Hammerhead>	Which is what I'm really asking for critiques now, before the story.
Aug 03 21:23:33 <Zyn>	Lol 
Aug 03 21:23:33 <Zyn>	dude
Aug 03 21:23:35 <Hammerhead>	Why I'm*
Aug 03 21:23:55 <Zyn>	This is not interesting.
Aug 03 21:23:59 <Zyn>	It might be, with the story.
Aug 03 21:24:07 <Zyn>	Why are you giving us the barebones, not interesting stuff first?
Aug 03 21:24:16 <Zyn>	Like, there's no rush to contribute or anything
Aug 03 21:24:27 <Zyn>	If you have this awesome story planned out
Aug 03 21:24:28 <Zyn>	write that
Aug 03 21:24:28 <Hammerhead>	I wanna make the barebones interesting.
Aug 03 21:24:32 <Zyn>	that's what your reader wants
Aug 03 21:24:38 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: Then write that story.
Aug 03 21:24:40 <Cimmerian>	Hammerhead: This is the critique you're getting.
Aug 03 21:24:56 <Zyn>	Barebones, by definition, usually isn't interesting enough to carry an article on its own nowadays
Aug 03 21:25:03 <Zyn>	especially given that we've got, what
Aug 03 21:25:06 <Zyn>	2600+ articles?
Aug 03 21:25:13 <Zyn>	Man, 3000 contest's just around the corner
Aug 03 21:25:20 <Cimmerian>	closer to 2700 now
Aug 03 21:25:23 <Zyn>	But yeah. Barebones is what the SCP is and does.
Aug 03 21:25:23 <Cimmerian>	if not over
Aug 03 21:25:25 <Zyn>	Thank you Cimmy.
Aug 03 21:25:38 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: Your reader will want to see more.
Aug 03 21:25:43 <Zyn>	Give them that.
Aug 03 21:26:16 <Cimmerian>	The idea of grabbing the reader is to grab the reader. Not let them waltz in and out without noticing what's up.
Aug 03 21:27:55 <Hammerhead>	Yeah, I plan on writing more, but this I'm asking for the critique on is the hook, the part that gets them interested. AnakinSpecter said he would have stopped reading before the story began, so I assume it needs work as a hook.
Aug 03 21:28:13 <Cimmerian>	ok
Aug 03 21:28:15 <Cimmerian>	Let me be clear.
Aug 03 21:28:30 <Hammerhead>	Or would trimming out the fat be the main thing there?
Aug 03 21:28:59 <Cimmerian>	You do not have a hook. Nothing in this story grabs the reader and makes them pay attention. You are missing a hook. You are hookless. It's like Peter Pan without Dustin Hoffman.
Aug 03 21:29:05 <MrAnakinSpecter>	both
Aug 03 21:29:28 <Hammerhead>	Okay.
Aug 03 21:29:44 <MrAnakinSpecter>	dustin hoffman played captain hook?!
Aug 03 21:29:47 <Zyn>	Jason Isaac was a better Captain Hook in my opinion
Aug 03 21:29:52 <Cimmerian>	yeah in Hook
Aug 03 21:30:02 <Zyn>	MrAnakinSpecter: In the movie "Hook" where Peter Pan grew up and got all lame
Aug 03 21:30:45 *	Disconnected (No such device or address)
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 03 21:31:05 2015
 
Aug 03 21:31:05 *	Now talking on #site17
Aug 03 21:31:05 *	Topic for #site17 is: A place to chat with SCP Foundation staff, and to get your stuff critiqued if you're a site member! General chat in #site19 - unless staff are involved. | Ask for an admin if you want your app looked at. PLEASE GIVE US A FEW MINUTES TO RESPOND!
Aug 03 21:31:05 *	Topic for #site17 set by Eskobear (Fri Apr 03 11:10:48 2015)
Aug 03 21:31:05 *	ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to ProcyonPing
Aug 03 21:31:35 <Zyn>	Anyway
Aug 03 21:31:42 <Hammerhead>	But anyways, are you guys saying I should tease a bit of the story early on in the description? Because I was specifically avoiding that, for fear of spoiling the bulk of the story.
Aug 03 21:31:43 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: We would like to see the story you have planned for this.
Aug 03 21:31:48 *	MrWrong ([email protected]) has joined
Aug 03 21:31:52 *	MrWrong ([email protected]) has left
Aug 03 21:31:53 <Zyn>	Hammerhead: We would like you to finish the draft.
Aug 03 21:32:00 <Cimmerian>	Hammerhead: You need to have your object description be in service of your story.
Aug 03 21:32:05 <Cimmerian>	It's not two seperate concepts.
Aug 03 21:32:08 <Zyn>	>  Because I was specifically avoiding that, for fear of spoiling the bulk of the story.
Aug 03 21:32:14 <Zyn>	We've got no clue there's a story to begin with.
Aug 03 21:32:18 <Zyn>	How could we be spoiled?
Aug 03 21:32:23 <Zyn>	Also, like... people are going to read this anyway
Aug 03 21:32:40 <Zyn>	if you don't tell people in the draft stage what you have planned, then no one's going to know how to give you decent feedback
Aug 03 21:33:13 <MrAnakinSpecter>	or they'll think you are constantly making new stuff up to just to appeal to them
Aug 03 21:33:22 *	ProcyonLotor has quit (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
Aug 03 21:33:37 <Zyn>	Also, if there's anyone you want to spoil things for, it's your editors.
Aug 03 21:33:47 <Zyn>	How else will you find out if the story is workable?
Aug 03 21:34:56 <Hammerhead>	Well, the story is that this guy is imprisoned inside this box, and the locations are little scenes forever playing on a loop, memories for his life, the last remnants of his universe, which he destroyed, and the exploration logs tell his story out of chronological order, about how he destroyed his home.
Aug 03 21:35:09 <Hammerhead>	I was hoping for it to be a sad story.
Aug 03 21:35:21 <Cimmerian>	that's an obvious direction to take it
Aug 03 21:35:32 <Zyn>	sounds like Old Man from Nowhere in a box
Aug 03 21:35:32 <Hammerhead>	...
Aug 03 21:35:40 <Zyn>	what was the old man again?
Aug 03 21:35:42 <Zyn>	1410?
Aug 03 21:35:44 <Zyn>	SCP-1410
Aug 03 21:35:45 <Alexandra>	Zyn: SCP-1410 (Sweating Stone, Written by Dmatix, Rating:+35) - http://scp-wiki.net/scp-1410
Aug 03 21:35:48 <Zyn>	no
Aug 03 21:35:51 <Zyn>	not even close
Aug 03 21:35:53 <Zyn>	Uhhh
Aug 03 21:35:54 <Cimmerian>	Sad is hard to pull off properly.
Aug 03 21:36:00 <Zyn>	.sea old man from nowhere
Aug 03 21:36:01 <Alexandra>	Zyn: The Old Man from Nowhere(SCP-1440, Rating:426) - http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1440
Aug 03 21:36:04 <Cimmerian>	Especially when we can see it coming.
Aug 03 21:36:41 <Cimmerian>	(that's an ironic thing for me to say given my last outing, but I digress)
Aug 03 21:36:53 <Hammerhead>	The last exploration log is meant to be the reveal that it was him destroying the reality.
Aug 03 21:37:40 <MrAnakinSpecter>	tbh this doesn't really mean anything if it isn't in a narrative. It's easy to say "this will be the best thing ever" but difficult to write the best thing ever.
Aug 03 21:38:01 <Cimmerian>	Zyn's said this a couple times now but I'll reiterate. You should write a complete draft.
Aug 03 21:38:10 <Cimmerian>	Get all of it done as a first draft, and then see how it looks.
Aug 03 21:38:18 <Cimmerian>	If you want to do brainstorming that's one thing. 
Aug 03 21:38:26 <Cimmerian>	But we can't do draft review easily on an incomplete draft.
Aug 03 21:39:26 *	Bouncl ([email protected]) has joined
Aug 03 21:39:26 *	ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to Bouncl
Aug 03 21:39:29 <Cimmerian>	We're chasing our tails here. Giving you general advice when we could be giving you specific advice on a finished first draft.
Aug 03 21:39:31 <Hammerhead>	Hmmm, 1440 does seem quite similar to this idea
Aug 03 21:39:44 <Cimmerian>	So make 'er different!
Aug 03 21:39:53 <Hammerhead>	That's concerning
Aug 03 21:40:21 <Hammerhead>	I have to reconsider him a bit.
Aug 03 21:40:35 <Hammerhead>	I'll type up the exploration logs, then.
Aug 03 21:40:39 *	Wogglebug has quit (Quit: ...)
Aug 03 21:41:04 <MrAnakinSpecter>	good luck
Aug 03 21:41:12 <MrAnakinSpecter>	(:
Aug 03 21:41:18 <Cimmerian>	yup
Aug 03 21:41:22 <Hammerhead>	Thank you all for the advice, I sincerely appreciate it, and I feel as though I've made progress.
Aug 03 21:41:26 <Cimmerian>	good luck with your draft!
Aug 03 21:42:07 <Hammerhead>	(I'll be back in here later, but I can't work on my draft and be in here at the same time, unfortunately.
-----
Aug 04 02:19:59 <EldritchCyanide>	Alright, Hammerhead
Aug 04 02:20:05 <EldritchCyanide>	Go ahead and throw me it
Aug 04 02:21:51 <Hammerhead>	Ah, that was faster than I expected.
Aug 04 02:21:56 <Hammerhead>	http://scpsandbox2.wikidot.com/hammerh tab 2
Aug 04 02:22:02 <EldritchCyanide>	Pchoooo
Aug 04 02:22:03 <EldritchCyanide>	Okay
Aug 04 02:22:39 <EldritchCyanide>	Do you want it here or nah?
Aug 04 02:22:40 *	Hammerhead is so excited. He doesn't think EldritchCyanide has actually critiqued any of his drafts to date
Aug 04 02:23:05 <EldritchCyanide>	Hehe, what, am I a celebrity now? : P
Aug 04 02:23:06 <Hammerhead>	Go ahead at your own preference.
Aug 04 02:23:26 <EldritchCyanide>	Alright, lemme read
Aug 04 02:23:50 <Hammerhead>	Don't know, but there have been multiple times where you're all "I'll review it later" and you never do.
Aug 04 02:23:57 <EldritchCyanide>	Ah, shit
Aug 04 02:24:34 <EldritchCyanide>	If that happens, prod me in pms
...
Aug 04 02:25:17 <EldritchCyanide>	Because I get a good amount of requests and have a bad memory ^^;
Aug 04 02:26:05 <Hammerhead>	I am?!!
Aug 04 02:26:09 *	Hammerhead faints
Aug 04 02:26:43 <EldritchCyanide>	I am pretty sure we are all terribly confused right now <_>
Aug 04 02:28:01 <EldritchCyanide>	Hammerhead: Also, if I said I would and someone else gets you, I tend to assume you're fine and move on unless you request otherwise : P
...
...
Aug 04 02:28:46 <EldritchCyanide>	Hammerhead: Space between the Item and Object Class lines
Aug 04 02:28:58 <Hammerhead>	She is (she, right?)
Aug 04 02:29:11 <EldritchCyanide>	She is fine
Aug 04 02:29:18 <EldritchCyanide>	Thank you : )
Aug 04 02:29:31 <EldritchCyanide>	"measuring 1.8m by 1.8m by 5.4m." We don't need this information
Aug 04 02:29:39 <Hammerhead>	I always miss that line, thans.
Aug 04 02:30:34 <EldritchCyanide>	"29km by 29km by 87km." This information is iffy.  I don't like the usage of measurements here, but I can't... I'll think on it and see if I can pull up a better way to do it.
Aug 04 02:31:26 <Hammerhead>	Okay, I got a criticism on that before, but I think it is important. If you have suggestions, though, I'm open to them.
Aug 04 02:31:38 <EldritchCyanide>	"When an opening into SCP-XXXX is formed" ... like when someone drills a hole, or opens the box, or...?
Aug 04 02:31:59 <EldritchCyanide>	Well, generally, if more than one person says it, it's really something you should consider.
Aug 04 02:32:28 <EldritchCyanide>	There are better ways to say "bigger on the inside", I'm sure of it.  It's just 3:32 am and I can't think of them right now : P
Aug 04 02:32:46 <Hammerhead>	Well, the box doesn't have a door, so generally the way of getting inside is by removing one or more planks of wood.
Aug 04 02:33:13 <EldritchCyanide>	" the corresponding opening on the interior of the item maintains the same size relative to objects passing through it, and is located in the corresponding wall, at ground level, and midway along the length of the wall." I especially do not know what this means
Aug 04 02:33:34 <Hammerhead>	Really?
Aug 04 02:33:35 <EldritchCyanide>	Okay, lemme see if I can break that down
Aug 04 02:34:06 <EldritchCyanide>	Like, if an item that is half the size of the opening from the outside goes through
Aug 04 02:34:21 <EldritchCyanide>	It will remain half the size of the opening when it goes in
Aug 04 02:34:41 <EldritchCyanide>	Good so far?
Aug 04 02:34:46 <Hammerhead>	Yeah
Aug 04 02:35:24 <EldritchCyanide>	The next part is ambiguous
Aug 04 02:35:49 <EldritchCyanide>	And probably, once fixed up, can be made into its own sentence
Aug 04 02:36:17 <EldritchCyanide>	Is the item located in the bottom middle of the wall?
Aug 04 02:36:21 <EldritchCyanide>	Is the opening?
Aug 04 02:36:34 <Hammerhead>	Yes
Aug 04 02:36:45 <EldritchCyanide>	Is the Monte Carlo Museum of Natural History?
Aug 04 02:37:10 <EldritchCyanide>	You just said yes to two things >_<
Aug 04 02:37:32 <Hammerhead>	So, if you removed all planks of wood on one side of the crate, for example, it would only form a small opening at the middle bottom of the interior wall.
Aug 04 02:37:32 <ProcyonLotor>	that museum does not exist
Aug 04 02:37:49 <EldritchCyanide>	ProcyonLotor: Shhhh
Aug 04 02:37:59 <ProcyonLotor>	(also most of the time when people say Monte Carlo they actually mean Monaco jsyk)
Aug 04 02:38:01 <EldritchCyanide>	Hammerhead: That isn't what I got at all.
Aug 04 02:38:28 <EldritchCyanide>	ProcyonLotor: I basically picked a random assortment of words and stuck them together so ._.
Aug 04 02:38:52 <ProcyonLotor>	F-- see me after class
Aug 04 02:38:59 <EldritchCyanide>	;-;
Aug 04 02:39:11 <Hammerhead>	Okay, then how would you phrase it? (And a man walking through it would turn around and see a door the same size as the door they walk through.)
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Aug 04 02:40:12 *	Now talking on #site17
Aug 04 02:40:12 *	Topic for #site17 is: A place to chat with SCP Foundation staff, and to get your stuff critiqued if you're a site member! General chat in #site19 - unless staff are involved. | Ask for an admin if you want your app looked at. PLEASE GIVE US A FEW MINUTES TO RESPOND!
Aug 04 02:40:12 *	Topic for #site17 set by Eskobear (Fri Apr 03 11:10:48 2015)
Aug 04 02:40:12 *	ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to ProcyonPing
Aug 04 02:41:45 <EldritchCyanide>	I'm not sure, seeing as I'm still not certain what you're trying to convey.
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Aug 04 02:42:17 <Hammerhead>	So, you know the TARDIS?
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Aug 04 02:43:25 *	Now talking on #site17
Aug 04 02:43:25 *	Topic for #site17 is: A place to chat with SCP Foundation staff, and to get your stuff critiqued if you're a site member! General chat in #site19 - unless staff are involved. | Ask for an admin if you want your app looked at. PLEASE GIVE US A FEW MINUTES TO RESPOND!
Aug 04 02:43:25 *	Topic for #site17 set by Eskobear (Fri Apr 03 11:10:48 2015)
Aug 04 02:43:25 *	ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to ProcyonGone
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Aug 04 02:44:28 <Hammerhead>	It's like the door to it, where it's the same size on the inside or the outside, relative to the guy who steps through it.
Aug 04 02:44:32 *	You are now known as ProcyonPing
Aug 04 02:45:30 <EldritchCyanide>	So it only creates a small opening, but going through it results in a door of the same size as the one someone went through originally
Aug 04 02:45:32 <Hammerhead>	But in this one, you can make new doors, so I specified that they always appear in the bottom middle of the corresponding interior wall.
Aug 04 02:46:29 <EldritchCyanide>	But you just said there aren't any other openings
Aug 04 02:46:36 <EldritchCyanide>	And that's why someone has to make them?
Aug 04 02:46:48 <Hammerhead>	So, if a hole 1 meter tall is created and you step through it, turn around, and look at the hole, it will still be 1 meter tall, but now in a towering expanse of wood.
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Aug 04 02:48:12 *	Now talking on #site17
Aug 04 02:48:12 *	Topic for #site17 is: A place to chat with SCP Foundation staff, and to get your stuff critiqued if you're a site member! General chat in #site19 - unless staff are involved. | Ask for an admin if you want your app looked at. PLEASE GIVE US A FEW MINUTES TO RESPOND!
Aug 04 02:48:12 *	Topic for #site17 set by Eskobear (Fri Apr 03 11:10:48 2015)
Aug 04 02:48:12 *	ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to ProcyonGone
Aug 04 02:48:28 <EldritchCyanide>	You are having to spend way too long explaining the /door/
Aug 04 02:48:54 <Hammerhead>	You're the first to state that it's difficult to understand.
Aug 04 02:49:14 <Hammerhead>	Suffice to say that you have to make your own door, but you can get inside.
Aug 04 02:49:22 <EldritchCyanide>	Yes.  I got that part.
Aug 04 02:49:50 <EldritchCyanide>	Okay.  Let's see.
Aug 04 02:50:02 *	ProcyonPing has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
Aug 04 02:50:18 <EldritchCyanide>	Try cutting out the part where you mention that the opening forms in the middle bottom.
Aug 04 02:50:47 <EldritchCyanide>	It's unnecessary regardless
Aug 04 02:51:35 <Hammerhead>	I would wonder where the door forms of I was reading this.
Aug 04 02:52:05 <EldritchCyanide>	There are some things you can leave open to reader interpretation.
Aug 04 02:52:28 <EldritchCyanide>	Not /everything/ has to make it into the main article.
Aug 04 02:53:02 <Hammerhead>	Alright, I'll consider that.
Aug 04 02:53:32 <EldritchCyanide>	"Openings in multiple walls can exist at the same time, and it has been established that they will all lead into the same interior space."
Aug 04 02:53:56 <EldritchCyanide>	Good general rule of thumb: If it does what you expect it to, you don't need to mention it.
Aug 04 02:54:25 <Hammerhead>	Alright
Aug 04 02:54:57 <EldritchCyanide>	"Attempts to create an opening in the ceiling or floor of the crate or a single opening which spans across two exterior walls have failed," this is an example, though I feel like it could be said better as well
Aug 04 02:55:10 <EldritchCyanide>	"as particular beams exhibit exceedingly high hardness and structural strength." ????
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Aug 04 02:56:22 <Hammerhead>	Hardness as in "can't be cut" and structural strength as in "can't be pulled apart, torqued, or anything else"
Aug 04 02:56:26 <EldritchCyanide>	I... which beams?
Aug 04 02:56:39 <EldritchCyanide>	You mashed two different things into one sentence.
Aug 04 02:57:23 <Hammerhead>	Okay, the beams that make up the frame, floor, and ceiling.
Aug 04 02:58:19 <EldritchCyanide>	Yeah, that sentence could use rewriting.
Aug 04 02:59:17 <EldritchCyanide>	I can see what you're going for, but it's... really confusing.
Aug 04 03:00:52 <Hammerhead>	I think that might be due to you being tired. No one else has been been commenting on it being confusing so far.
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Aug 04 03:02:10 *	Now talking on #site17
Aug 04 03:02:10 *	Topic for #site17 is: A place to chat with SCP Foundation staff, and to get your stuff critiqued if you're a site member! General chat in #site19 - unless staff are involved. | Ask for an admin if you want your app looked at. PLEASE GIVE US A FEW MINUTES TO RESPOND!
Aug 04 03:02:10 *	Topic for #site17 set by Eskobear (Fri Apr 03 11:10:48 2015)
Aug 04 03:02:10 *	ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to ProcyonPing
Aug 04 03:03:32 <Deci|AFK>	"1.8m by 1.8m by 5.4m" since you said its important earlier
Aug 04 03:03:37 <Deci|AFK>	whats the significance of this to your article?
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Aug 04 03:05:13 <Hammerhead>	It gives a clear scale to the crate. If I just say "it's larger in the inside", people could assume anything, from it being a tiny box containing a universe to whatever else.
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Aug 04 03:06:38 <Deci|AFK>	sure, fine. then i'll suggest something here; since crates come in all shapes and sizes and theres no "common" size, suggesting a size like that is immensely difficult, especially given... well, do you know how tall something 5.4 meters is?
Aug 04 03:07:14 <ProcyonPing>	at 5.4 meters it's more of an "upturned cargo container" or "weirdly proportioned shack" than a crate
Aug 04 03:07:30 <Hammerhead>	Yeah, but it's set up on it's side.
Aug 04 03:07:48 <ProcyonPing>	have you ever seen a crate that's ~18 feet
Aug 04 03:07:51 <ProcyonPing>	that's one bigass crate
Aug 04 03:08:02 <Hammerhead>	So, 1.8 tall
Aug 04 03:08:22 <Deci|AFK>	wait lemme try and visualize this
Aug 04 03:08:24 <ProcyonPing>	like
Aug 04 03:08:27 <ProcyonPing>	when I think crate
Aug 04 03:08:34 <ProcyonPing>	I generally think pretty much a meter per side tops
Aug 04 03:08:36 <Deci|AFK>	so when you say its 1.8 x 1.8 x 5.4 ...
Aug 04 03:08:37 <ProcyonPing>	maybe two
Aug 04 03:08:41 <Deci|AFK>	the 5.4 is referring to its height?
Aug 04 03:08:53 <Hammerhead>	No, 5.4 is length
Aug 04 03:09:05 <EldritchCyanide>	Wait, really?
Aug 04 03:09:09 <Deci|AFK>	urgh
Aug 04 03:09:11 <Deci|AFK>	ok so
Aug 04 03:09:14 <EldritchCyanide>	Wow I was seeing that wrong
Aug 04 03:09:19 <Deci|AFK>	its...
Aug 04 03:09:25 <Deci|AFK>	ok, you know, this actually ties into my point
Aug 04 03:09:32 <Deci|AFK>	people will not easily visualize this with the numbers you use
Aug 04 03:09:41 <Deci|AFK>	theyll think "wow, numbers", and gloss right over it or not know what youre talking about
Aug 04 03:09:49 <Deci|AFK>	either use more round numbers
Aug 04 03:09:51 <Deci|AFK>	or use smaller numbers
Aug 04 03:09:58 <Hammerhead>	https://packingservice.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/84-cases-001.jpg
Aug 04 03:10:15 <ProcyonPing>	yeah
Aug 04 03:10:19 <ProcyonPing>	that doesn't approach 18 feet
Aug 04 03:10:30 <ProcyonPing>	nine, maybe
Aug 04 03:10:35 <Hammerhead>	My intended image, waiting on reply from Roget concerning image policy.
Aug 04 03:10:37 <EldritchCyanide>	You and I had very different images there <_>
Aug 04 03:11:05 <Deci|AFK>	eighteen feet is uh
Aug 04 03:11:24 <Hammerhead>	I can change the length then, jeez.
Aug 04 03:11:29 <Deci|AFK>	no, look
Aug 04 03:12:08 <Deci|AFK>	my point is that the numbers need to be changed to make the reader better visualize, so like here
Aug 04 03:12:11 <Deci|AFK>	if you include this image
Aug 04 03:12:18 <Deci|AFK>	you dont even need to list its dimensions
Aug 04 03:12:19 *	Deci|AFK moves on
Aug 04 03:12:20 <ProcyonPing>	Don't get offended when you act //exceedingly difficult// and then we have to fight you on basic things
Aug 04 03:13:13 <Hammerhead>	._.
Aug 04 03:13:36 <Deci|AFK>	"This crate contains a disproportionately large space measuring approximately 29km by 29km by 87km." The crate, not this (minor tone thing)
Aug 04 03:13:59 <Hammerhead>	Okay, good catch.
Aug 04 03:14:44 *	You are now known as ProcyonGone
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Aug 04 03:15:28 <Deci|AFK>	"When an opening into SCP-XXXX is formed, the corresponding opening on the interior of the item maintains the same size relative to objects passing through it, and is located in the corresponding wall, at ground level, and midway along the length of the wall." this is a run-on. you need to break this up into two different sentences and cut a bit of wording. "When an opening into SCP-XXXX is 
Aug 04 03:15:28 <Deci|AFK>	formed, the corresponding opening on the interior maintains the same size relative to objects passing through it. The opening is located in the corresponding wall at ground level, midway along the length of the wall."
Aug 04 03:15:35 <Deci|AFK>	now
Aug 04 03:15:41 <Deci|AFK>	the reason why is because it was so unclear
Aug 04 03:15:46 <Deci|AFK>	i had to read it over a few times
Aug 04 03:16:14 <Deci|AFK>	i only get what youre talking about as far as "you make an opening, and theres an opening on the other side" but theres so much detail im not sure what youre referring to exactly
Aug 04 03:16:42 <Deci|AFK>	like, does the opening change depending on the objects going through? or is it the same size as the original opening? in which case, why the extra details?
Aug 04 03:18:06 <Hammerhead>	I'm not sure I follow the questions, but a 1 meter tall hole is 1 meter tall on both sides. Now what extra detail are you referring to?
Aug 04 03:18:34 <Deci|AFK>	alright, so for example
Aug 04 03:19:51 <Deci|AFK>	"When an opening into SCP-XXXX is formed, the corresponding opening on the interior of the item maintains the same size relative to objects passing through it" according to this, when you make an opening to get into SCP-XXXX the "corresponding opening" (which i already get thrown off by) maintains the same size "relative to objects passing through it". this means that even though the opening 
Aug 04 03:19:51 <Deci|AFK>	on the outside remains static, on the inside, it changes depending on the size of the object coming through
Aug 04 03:20:00 <Deci|AFK>	i don't get the impression that it's just a 1 meter tall hall on both sides
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Aug 04 03:20:33 <Deci|AFK>	and to continue
Aug 04 03:21:02 <Deci|AFK>	"and is located in the corresponding wall, at ground level, and midway along the length of the wall." i assume the corresponding wall meaning the wall the hole was made in. so what does ground level or "midwat along the length of the wall" mean??
Aug 04 03:21:33 <Hammerhead>	Well, the size of the hole could remain the same as relative to the crate, so someone on the inside would see an opening 16,100 times larger.
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Aug 04 03:22:38 <Deci|AFK>	ok. so in that case
Aug 04 03:22:39 <Hammerhead>	If you have a 1 meter hole appear on a kilometers long expanse of wood, where is it?
Aug 04 03:22:47 <Deci|AFK>	uh
Aug 04 03:23:17 <Hammerhead>	I described it as being flush with the floor and uniformly in the center of the walL
Aug 04 03:23:32 <Deci|AFK>	no matter where the hole is being made?
Aug 04 03:23:51 <Hammerhead>	Yes.
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Aug 04 03:25:09 <Deci|AFK>	so... if you make a hole in the top of the crate thats 1 meter wide. there will be a 1 meter hole on... a wall? right in the center of it? and it'll appear as 1 meter as well?
Aug 04 03:25:38 <EldritchCyanide>	You can't make a hole in the top
Aug 04 03:25:44 <EldritchCyanide>	Or the bottom
Aug 04 03:25:57 <Hammerhead>	Yeah, I covered my tail on that one.
Aug 04 03:26:01 <Deci|AFK>	oh
Aug 04 03:26:08 <Deci|AFK>	i didnt even think of that because i was still trying to decipher that one sentence
Aug 04 03:26:21 <Deci|AFK>	ok so
Aug 04 03:26:29 <EldritchCyanide>	Although I question whether that's relative to which side is hitting the ground
Aug 04 03:26:58 <Hammerhead>	I thought about that, EldritchCyanide, but decided to not go there.
Aug 04 03:27:02 <Deci|AFK>	if you make a hole on the right side of the crate, thats 1 meter wide/tall, there will be a 1 meter hole on the other side, in the center of the other side? and itll appear as 1 meter?
Aug 04 03:27:05 <Deci|AFK>	????
Aug 04 03:27:22 <Hammerhead>	Yes
Aug 04 03:27:49 <Deci|AFK>	so then why would someone on the side see an opening 16k times larger?
Aug 04 03:27:59 <EldritchCyanide>	I'll be honest, this whole paragraph is just immensely confusing.  We've spent over half an hour trying to piece this together, even with your extra explanation.
Aug 04 03:28:46 <Hammerhead>	If I had said that the opening remains the same size relative to the crate, that's what it would mean.
Aug 04 03:28:48 <EldritchCyanide>	Please figure out a way to rewrite or scrap, respective to the parts which need them.
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Aug 04 03:29:27 <Deci|AFK>	ok so
Aug 04 03:29:52 <Deci|AFK>	wait but
Aug 04 03:30:00 <Deci|AFK>	if the opening remains the same size relative to the crate
Aug 04 03:30:13 <Deci|AFK>	i still dont know why anyone in the crate would see the opening as 16k times bigger
Aug 04 03:30:14 <Hammerhead>	IT Doesn't
Aug 04 03:30:18 <Deci|AFK>	...wait
Aug 04 03:30:21 <Deci|AFK>	huh?
Aug 04 03:30:30 <EldritchCyanide>	?????
Aug 04 03:30:48 <Hammerhead>	I was giving that as an example of another way it could be explained.
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Aug 04 03:31:08 <Hammerhead>	Or, rather
Aug 04 03:31:34 <Hammerhead>	A way I could have decided the crate to function*
Aug 04 03:32:05 <Hammerhead>	Te interior is 16,100 scale the dimensions of the exterior.
...
Aug 04 03:32:34 <Deci|AFK>	ok so uh
...
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Aug 04 03:33:07 <Deci|AFK>	"When an opening into SCP-XXXX is formed, the corresponding opening on the interior of the item maintains the same size relative to objects passing through it, and is located in the corresponding wall, at ground level, and midway along the length of the wall." rereading this
Aug 04 03:33:23 <Deci|AFK>	none of this makes sense because theres so much detail to describe it, and its a run-on too. so
Aug 04 03:33:29 <Hammerhead>	Is you were to remove 50% of the wood of one wall and go inside, and 50% of said interior wall is missing, then it's a hole 16,100 times as large.
Aug 04 03:34:17 <Hammerhead>	What you guys seem to misunderstand is the term "relative"
Aug 04 03:34:36 <Hammerhead>	It is an important term
Aug 04 03:34:39 <EldritchCyanide>	.def relative
Aug 04 03:34:40 <Alexandra>	EldritchCyanide: relative: adjective: 1. Relevant; pertinent. 2. Connected to or depending on something else; not absolute; comparative. noun: Someone in the same family; someone connected by blood, marriage, or adoption. 
Aug 04 03:34:44 <Deci|AFK>	i mean
Aug 04 03:34:46 <EldritchCyanide>	Nah, pretty sure I got this.
Aug 04 03:34:48 <Deci|AFK>	i know what relative means
Aug 04 03:34:53 <Hammerhead>	Def 2
Aug 04 03:35:03 <Deci|AFK>	you cram so much detail into this that it obscures the meaning
Aug 04 03:35:17 <Deci|AFK>	im trying to figure out how to help you with it, because its a problem that i run into with every draft of mine i write
Aug 04 03:35:24 <Deci|AFK>	so to make that sentence clearer
Aug 04 03:36:04 <Hammerhead>	If I were to say it were relative to anything but the person passing through, that would mean that the person passing through would perceive a change in size.
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Aug 04 03:38:04 <Hammerhead>	I'm game for rewriting it, but no suggestion has been made to date.
Aug 04 03:38:14 <Deci|AFK>	well heres my idea for it
Aug 04 03:39:59 <Deci|AFK>	(also preemptively, i type slow; please be patient)
Aug 04 03:40:35 <Hammerhead>	I understand, I do too
Aug 04 03:42:37 <Deci|AFK>	"When an opening into SCP-XXXX is formed and passed through, the object passing through will arrive at the middle of the interior's wall. Viewed from the inside, the opening's size is bigger on a scale of ###:1. All objects passing through maintain their size."
Aug 04 03:42:41 <Deci|AFK>	now heres the thing about this
Aug 04 03:42:43 <Deci|AFK>	its not perfect
Aug 04 03:42:48 <Deci|AFK>	its not even the best
Aug 04 03:43:07 <Deci|AFK>	but what it does do is communicate things better, and gives the reader a better understanding of what youre talking about
Aug 04 03:43:14 <Hammerhead>	I think it's perfect
Aug 04 03:43:23 <Deci|AFK>	its easier to clarify and word things when you start with smaller sentences, rather than very detailed ones
Aug 04 03:43:24 <nulljellyfish>	omg
Aug 04 03:43:27 <nulljellyfish>	so many umbrellas
Aug 04 03:43:53 <Deci|AFK>	nulljellyfish: please dont leave random comments in here, especially in the middle of a draft critique
Aug 04 03:44:14 <nulljellyfish>	oh, sorry, had a random disconnect
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Aug 04 03:44:28 <Hammerhead>	Though, I don't think you need to state that the object is the same size. The reader could assume that.
Aug 04 03:44:45 <Deci|AFK>	probably, in which case, its even shorter
Aug 04 03:44:47 <Deci|AFK>	so thats fine
Aug 04 03:44:48 <Deci|AFK>	anyway
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Aug 04 03:45:15 <Deci|AFK>	"Attempts to create an opening in the ceiling or floor of the crate or a single opening which spans across two exterior walls have failed, as particular beams exhibit exceedingly high hardness and structural strength." the problem with this is that the tone isnt great, so its a bit hard to grasp until we realize what youre referring to
Aug 04 03:45:20 <Deci|AFK>	""Attempts to create an opening in the ceiling or floor of the crate" is fine
Aug 04 03:45:44 <Deci|AFK>	"or a single opening which spans across two exterior walls have failed" where is the relevance of this to the rest of the sentence?
Aug 04 03:46:21 <Deci|AFK>	like
Aug 04 03:46:27 <Deci|AFK>	do you mean the opening starts on one wall
Aug 04 03:46:29 <Deci|AFK>	and continues to the other?
Aug 04 03:46:39 <EldritchCyanide>	That's what I got from it
Aug 04 03:46:57 <Hammerhead>	Yeah, pretty much
Aug 04 03:46:58 <EldritchCyanide>	Like, it's a corner opening, I think
Aug 04 03:47:05 <Deci|AFK>	ok
Aug 04 03:47:07 <Hammerhead>	Exactly
Aug 04 03:47:12 <Deci|AFK>	so then my final problem is with the last bit
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Aug 04 03:47:42 <Deci|AFK>	"as particular beams exhibit exceedingly high hardness and structural strength" in this case, theyre not really beams. the other issue is that hardness is measured in minerals
Aug 04 03:47:48 <Deci|AFK>	not wooden crates
Aug 04 03:48:28 <Hammerhead>	Hardness can technically be applied to anything.
Aug 04 03:48:46 <Hammerhead>	But what would your recommendation be?
Aug 04 03:49:51 <Deci|AFK>	technically, you can "measure" hardness, but scientifically measuring it is done depending on what youre doing. we're not dealing with minerals, so we can't use Mohs, so we can only really measure it by the amount of force applied to it before it cracks
Aug 04 03:50:01 <Deci|AFK>	but since we're basically assuming it cant crack
Aug 04 03:50:02 <Hammerhead>	Also, you can have an iron beam, and it would still be a beam.
Aug 04 03:50:26 <Hammerhead>	Fair logic
Aug 04 03:50:52 <Deci|AFK>	well when i meant "not really beams"
Aug 04 03:51:05 <Deci|AFK>	i just didnt think we called the lines leading up to the vertices "beams"
Aug 04 03:51:06 <Deci|AFK>	but anyway
Aug 04 03:51:28 <Deci|AFK>	"Attempts to create an opening in the ceiling or floor of the crate or a single opening which spans across two exterior walls have failed, as particular beams are unable to be damaged." boom
Aug 04 03:51:34 <Hammerhead>	I was thinking "beams of wood"
Aug 04 03:51:48 <Hammerhead>	That works.
Aug 04 03:52:01 <Hammerhead>	Can we get to the story part?
Aug 04 03:52:02 <Deci|AFK>	"Currently several locations, and a single sentient humanoid entity have been found within SCP-XXXX." sentient, or sapient?
Aug 04 03:52:06 <Deci|AFK>	because theres a big difference
Aug 04 03:52:18 <EldritchCyanide>	No, we cannot.
Aug 04 03:52:18 <Hammerhead>	All this is ultimately inconsequential.
Aug 04 03:52:39 <Hammerhead>	Sapient, my bad on that.
Aug 04 03:52:41 <Deci|AFK>	ok
Aug 04 03:52:55 <Deci|AFK>	"distinctly gray skin tone" this is one of my biggest pet peeves
Aug 04 03:52:58 <Deci|AFK>	so why gray skin tone?
Aug 04 03:53:11 <Hammerhead>	Well, senile as well
Aug 04 03:53:22 <EldritchCyanide>	Hammerhead: You... you do realize that the point of crit is to address all the problems, correct?
Aug 04 03:53:29 <Deci|AFK>	like
Aug 04 03:53:34 <Deci|AFK>	.def senile
Aug 04 03:53:35 <Alexandra>	Deci|AFK: senile: adjective: 1. of, or relating to old age. 2. exhibiting the deterioration in mind and body often accompanying old age; doddering. 
Aug 04 03:53:37 <Hammerhead>	To mark him as not-human
Aug 04 03:53:49 <Deci|AFK>	so why go with gray, when you can go with literally any other color?
Aug 04 03:53:49 <Hammerhead>	Def 2
Aug 04 03:54:38 <Hammerhead>	I wanted him to be close enough that you would feel slight familiarity.
Aug 04 03:54:59 <Hammerhead>	That, and gray is a color of age.
Aug 04 03:55:23 <Deci|AFK>	gray is the common stock color for those kind of things, to the point where it's a cliche in of itself. there was a skip published literally two weeks ago with a "humanoid but not so human" thing with gray skin, and its... distracting. i can only think of one, maybe two examples where it works because it doesnt evoke common alien imagery or common "weird thing" tropes. try like, forest green. 
Aug 04 03:55:23 <Deci|AFK>	or turquoise
Aug 04 03:55:41 *	PossessedInkieShark ([email protected]) has left
Aug 04 03:55:44 <Deci|AFK>	for the record, the skip i can think of where it works is 1500, and its because 1500 is made from something that is grey
Aug 04 03:55:58 <Hammerhead>	Fair enough
Aug 04 03:56:33 <Hammerhead>	Didn't realize it was common. Maybe I'll just say "exceedingly high number of liver spots"
Aug 04 03:56:33 <Deci|AFK>	"This entity has been classified as SCP-XXXX-1." you wanna move this earlier
Aug 04 03:56:41 <Deci|AFK>	that also works
Aug 04 03:56:43 <Hammerhead>	Aight
Aug 04 03:56:54 <Deci|AFK>	"Currently several locations, and a single sentient humanoid entity (designated SCP-XXXX-1) have been found within SCP-XXXX."
Aug 04 03:57:13 <Deci|AFK>	"SCP-XXXX-1 has proven to be capable of manipulating reality around it in various ways. Approach is not advised." i can tell from this you want to reveal how this happens in the logs
Aug 04 03:57:14 *	Hammerhead grabs that.
Aug 04 03:57:34 <Deci|AFK>	but you should let your reader have some kind of expectation or knowledge before the logs
Aug 04 03:57:45 <Deci|AFK>	even if its basic in description
Aug 04 03:57:54 <EldritchCyanide>	"SCP-XXXX is large, airtight, oak crate measuring 1.8m by 1.8m by 5.4m."  By the way, you're missing a word here
Aug 04 03:58:03 <Deci|AFK>	you can expand upon it in the logs, just let the reader have a bit of a taste for whats to come
Aug 04 03:58:28 <Hammerhead>	Like give an example of what he can do?
Aug 04 03:58:52 <Hammerhead>	What word?
Aug 04 03:58:53 <Hammerhead>	Oh, a
Aug 04 03:59:03 <Deci|AFK>	well, in basic terms or examples, what can he do? what are some little examples for the reader to get?
Aug 04 03:59:17 <Deci|AFK>	because "capable of manipulating around it in various ways" means literally anything
Aug 04 03:59:46 <Hammerhead>	Well, he can create things, and destroy things, but he can't create life.
Aug 04 04:00:08 <Hammerhead>	So... Yeah, just about everything.
Aug 04 04:00:33 <Deci|AFK>	you still need to give some kind of examples for the reader to know. they dont have to be huge or whatever, just something
Aug 04 04:00:41 <Hammerhead>	I will
Aug 04 04:00:44 <Deci|AFK>	also, im going to bed in a bit, so im stopping here, but i wanna say something before i go
Aug 04 04:00:54 <Hammerhead>	Ah phooey
Aug 04 04:02:20 <Hammerhead>	Just when you were getting to the part I was wanting the review to focus on, too.
Aug 04 04:02:45 <Deci|AFK>	(its 5 AM here btw) anyway. from looking at the way youve been receptive to feedback earlier and now, you seem to be resistent to it and fighting back when people are giving advice and offering help. i don't mean fighting back as in loud yelling or whatever, but just not listening or leaving comments about the critique and wanting to move on. in the future, you shouldn't, and can't, do this, 
Aug 04 04:02:45 <Deci|AFK>	as it doesn't help you to write, and it doesn't help people giving feedback. it's just not good behavior and it comes off as rude
Aug 04 04:03:19 <Deci|AFK>	if you don't get why someone is thinking like they are or saying what they are, just ask and try to understand, but not being receptive to people all the way through doesnt help. it just frustrates everyone involved
Aug 04 04:03:32 <Deci|AFK>	now i have to actually go to bed
Aug 04 04:03:38 *	ProcyonPhone has quit (Client exited)
Aug 04 04:03:57 *	ProcyonLotor ([email protected]) has joined
Aug 04 04:03:57 *	ChanServ gives channel half-operator status to ProcyonLotor
Aug 04 04:04:59 <Hammerhead>	Well, for that, I never assume anyone's every instinct is perfect. 
Aug 04 04:05:16 <ProcyonLotor>	No
Aug 04 04:05:24 <ProcyonLotor>	Allow me to dispense with diplomacy
Aug 04 04:05:47 <ProcyonLotor>	I've seen hundreds of people come through here looking for critique
Aug 04 04:06:03 <Hammerhead>	I am more fond of discussion that just meekly accepting everything I am told.
Aug 04 04:06:13 <ProcyonLotor>	And among the people who didn't end up earning disciplinary action for their behavior
Aug 04 04:06:30 <ProcyonLotor>	You rank among the top five uniquely unpleasant people
Aug 04 04:06:48 <ProcyonLotor>	Note: I have heard this from everyone you have worked with thus far
Aug 04 04:07:09 <ProcyonLotor>	People are literally passing you off onto others because they can't take your attitude anymore
Aug 04 04:07:59 <ProcyonLotor>	It's not "looking for discussion" it's "conpletely ignoring everything until you get unconditional positive feedback"
Aug 04 04:08:54 <ProcyonLotor>	Frankly, there were several times while I was observing that I came close to kicking you. I can count on one hand the number of times I've done that during a crit session.
Aug 04 04:09:02 <Hammerhead>	I don't think my articles are perfect, otherwise I would just Coldpost every time.
Aug 04 04:09:15 <ProcyonLotor>	Coulda fooled us.
Aug 04 04:09:58 <ProcyonLotor>	So, this is your one warning. Cut the attitude if you want further crit. No ifs, ands, or buts. Are we clear?
Aug 04 04:11:00 *	minmin ([email protected]) has joined
Aug 04 04:11:20 <Hammerhead>	So, am I to just let the community write my every article for me and bring none of my own ideas to the mix?
Aug 04 04:11:46 <ProcyonLotor>	If that's what you think critique is, perhaps this site is not appropriate for you.
Aug 04 04:12:29 <ProcyonLotor>	Or writing in general
Aug 04 04:12:59 <Hammerhead>	No, that's not what I think, but you make it sound like I've never followed advice at all.
Aug 04 04:13:33 <ProcyonLotor>	Well, I mean, I could ask Decibelle when she gets back on how she felt her efforts went there
Aug 04 04:13:35 <Hammerhead>	I follow some advice, of course I do, I made constant changes to my first article before I posted it.
Aug 04 04:13:45 *	Deci|AFK has quit (Quit: You are a cardiac surgeon and I am your transplant!)
Aug 04 04:13:48 <ProcyonLotor>	I don't think you'd like the answer
Aug 04 04:13:52 <EldritchCyanide>	Or me
Aug 04 04:13:56 *	EldritchCyanide waves
Aug 04 04:14:09 <Hammerhead>	But I don't think every single piece of advice a person gives is necessarily perfect.
Aug 04 04:14:35 <ProcyonLotor>	All the advice there was valid. And you fought it tooth and nail down to the smallest detail.
Aug 04 04:14:44 <Hammerhead>	Otherwise they themselves would never need to ask for critique.
Aug 04 04:14:54 *	PossessedInkieShark ([email protected]) has joined
Aug 04 04:15:35 *	vezaz ([email protected]) has joined
Aug 04 04:15:37 <ProcyonLotor>	Either way, I'm well within my rights to stop you from recieving critique in this room. And if I ever see anything //approaching// this from you again, I plan on invoking it
Aug 04 04:15:55 <ProcyonLotor>	End of discussion.
Aug 04 04:16:28 <Hammerhead>	I wasn't fighting, I was giving clarification on what I was meaning to say for the purpose of helping them help me find a better way of stating it.
Aug 04 04:16:59 <ProcyonLotor>	You were fighting it. I've been down this street more than enough to tell the difference.
Aug 04 04:17:07 <ProcyonLotor>	A war of attrition is still a war.
Aug 04 04:17:31 <Hammerhead>	I never said anyone was wrong, not even once.
Aug 04 04:17:37 *	minmin is now known as Minmin
Aug 04 04:17:58 <ProcyonLotor>	"What you guys seem to misunderstand is the term "relative" "
Aug 04 04:18:09 <ProcyonLotor>	Please explain tbat little gem for me then
Aug 04 04:18:52 <ProcyonLotor>	Which I can tell both came across as and was recieved as a "fuck you"
Aug 04 04:18:53 <vezaz>	procyonlotor did you mean end of discussion, or did you want more explanations from him?
Aug 04 04:19:09 <ProcyonLotor>	Vezaz: end of discussion about a specific point
Aug 04 04:19:11 <Hammerhead>	Fair enough, I can apologize for that, but I really was trying to help clarify the issue.